Just when you think that Microsoft understand their users, you hear this.

It seems that Microsoft is determined to get rid of the start menu but you knew that already.

What I didn’t know is how determined they are to make it history forever.

This from Paul Thurrott:

Related to this second point is information I’ve received that Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor.

In fact, I’ve seen that several well-known UI hacks that worked fine with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview are no longer functional in the coming Release Preview. And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment.

That feature not only isn’t happening, it’s being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8’s stable mate) as well.

That’s disappointing on many levels.

First on the start menu front, they can only make it difficult, they can never stop a start menu hack. Software works on the key/lock principle. If there’s a lock, there’s a key. The more they lock it down, the more attractive a hack will be and the more hackers will drill deep into the code to make it happen.

This also seems like a very insecure way to design an Operating System.

Here are some quotes by some wise people that are being ignored:

We wanted to create an experience that works however you want to work, powering a new class of PCs that you are proud to own and love having in your life.

We recognize that in the proper hands, or in the hands of someone who is willing to tolerate the downsides, these are not features to be critical of, but assets of Windows. Our intention is not to lock down Windows, but to provide a platform that meets consumer expectations for how a device should work. These assets are far too easily abused or accidently misused—there is a better way.

We do not view the desktop as a mode, legacy or otherwise—it is simply a paradigm for working that suits some people and specific apps. This is very much like the person who uses a mobile “phone” but really uses it for the mobile browser and mail client and rarely uses apps or the phone. It is like the person who has a brand new tablet but only uses the web browser.

If you only want to “live in the desktop,” if you never plan on using a PC with touch or using any apps from the Windows Store whatsoever, Windows 8 still has a lot to offer.

These design principles as espoused by Microsoft seem like the way to go.

Any attempt to strong arm users into this boat will not work.

Not allowing users to boot into the environment of their choosing is not “creating an experience that works however you want to work“, it’s creating an experience that works however Microsoft thinks that I should work.

After spending money on an Operating System, if it tries to force me to do what I don’t want to do, I will either:

  1. Stay with Windows 7
  2. Go to Apple.

It’s not an angry, fist shaking choice.

At that point, it will be clinical because it just makes sense.

This is just a story by Paul Thurrott at this point.

I hope it’s not true.

What do you all think?

About the Author

Onuora Amobi is the Founder and VP of Digital Marketing at Learn About The Web Inc. Onuora has more than a decade of information security, project management and management consulting experience. He has specialized in the management and deployment of large scale ERP client/server systems.

In addition to being a former Microsoft MVP and the founder and editor of EyeOnWindows.com, he is the CEO of a Pasadena based online marketing education startup - Learn About The Web Inc. (www.learnabouttheweb.com) and The Redmond Cloud (https://www.theredmondcloud.com).

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  1. Not true. Microsoft is not stupid!

  2. Elwood Anderson / May 30, 2012 at 10:58 am /Reply

    Get over it. All the information that was on the Start Button is on the Start Page – All, and more. Anything new seems to upseta contingent of old foggies.

  3. Change is good. but people fear change well there is not much we can do about it so we stick with it.

    The new interface is great change.

  4.  REMOVING the START BUTTON is STUPID!!!!!!! I have had people Look at the BETA Versions of 8 and ASK where the START Button is and when I show the the WINDOWS or ESC Button I have had the RESOUNDING RESPONSE “OH, I HATE that!” or “I’ll SKIP THIS Version of Windows!”

    • There is something I have notices that happens when I talk to people who aren’t power users about tech… if I have strong opinions about something, my opinions usually rub off on them, because they assume us power-users (assuming you are one) know more than they do. Because of this, I make it a point to try to be neutral when dealing with co-workers and clients, and stick with merely explaining differences to them so that they are more able to form their own opinions and make their own tech decisions. I talk about this elsewhere up there somewhere^^^.

      However that isn’t my main point here. What I really want to get across is that your lack of knowledge arguement is kinda weak. If you remember, with windows 95, they had this problem when the start menu was new. So when you first started using Windows, they would have an arrow over the start menu staying start here. Users would see this, click on the start menu, and were set thereafter (as a 2nd or 3rd grader even I was able to figure that out when our school got windows 95 PCs). Likewise with Windows 8 they have already said “We will post more about learnability soon: about how people discover and
      understand new concepts, and the specific steps we will be taking to
      make sure that people don’t feel lost the first time they sit down with a
      Windows 8 PC.” Will these steps be good? Only time will tell, at this point we really don’t know. However, what we do know is that Windows 8 CP is still beta software, both incomplete and generally intended to be used by people who “know what they are doing.” Judging the coming finished project based on what you see now is foolish.

      So you say “REMOVING the START BUTTON is STUPID!!!” Outside of learnability which is yet to be addressed, do you have any compelling reasons why?

  5. I think removing the Start Menu/Start Button is a terrible idea. Most, if not all users, use that many times a day. In fact, that’s about all they know how to do right is find the start button!!!

    • I like it. I think it will look nicer (personaly without it). Id rather have the most frequent used items on my desktop rather than in another window.

  6. I work in an environment of over 6000 computers, and I can promise you that if Microsoft does away with the Start menu or the Desktop environment, we will stay with Windows 7 until Microsoft realizes the error of their ways. That is not being stubborn or being an old (foggie?) fogey, it is being realistic in understanding that while some folks will use the Metro interface the vast majority of our users are insistent on using what they are familiar with. I don’t think we will invest our time and money in retraining our employees to use something that we don’t want and would not be a good fit for our work environment.

    • I can see many businesses using this argument to stay away from Windows 8. People tend to like what they are used to, and Microsoft should embrace this and perhaps make the transition to metro at a slightly gentler pace.

      • Nice thoughts, maybe they will yet. On the flip side, just looking at the future of Windows 8 Tabs, I am excited to see a very usable tablet environment that unlike some other products works well within a corporate infrastructure. So it seems there may be two sides to this coin.

    • once you are familiar with the startscreen and metro (or whatever the new name will be) you never want sth else. but this one step is necessary.

  7. I believe Microsoft will be suprise with sales for desktop  systems, I play around with the Previews of windows 8, it does offer some improvement but trying to make desktop computers function like a ipad or cell phone…NOT. Good luck with that and maybe give the consumer what they really want!

    • Yada Yada Yada / May 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm /Reply

      They are.  Windows 8 is EXACTLY what I want on the desktop, tablet, phone, etc.  Amazing strategy.

      So for you to say “give the consumer what they really want” is a straw man argument at best.  They ARE.  Because YOU and a few select ones here don’t want it, does not mean you represent the entire, or majority of consumers.

      Read the web, Bing it. Consumers and enterprise customers are excited about Windows 8.  I fall into both categories, and I want it and am excited about it. 

  8. It’s not an issue. So what, no start button, the OS is great, love it. The desktop is there, I don’t care about the Metro feature, some will. Now, if MS removed the desktop, that would be worthy of news.


  9. Tomas Nordendorf / May 30, 2012 at 11:20 am /Reply

    Removing the start button is so stupid in the working places, since that IS where most of the people in the world know, how to find something in the case it aint out in the desktop(? not sure it will also be removed) Since when I had the consumer preview, I didnt know how to find it and I usually finds out stuff pretty fast.

    You are trying to force everyone to do what YOU want, but humans are doing what THEY want, if it aint against the rules, and fx going over to mac or staying with windows 7 is NOT illegal, so they will not reach selling the same amount of licenses as they might have.

    My idea of this is that they are doing the exact same thing as they did with Windows vista, and I am pretty sure you know how bad that one went right?

    If windows remove the start menu on a pc, and a possibly new pc I am going to buy when the one I got goes dead ends up having the windows 8, I will either uninstall the system, or just find a pc wich dont have it.

    I love the new design, and how it works, but it is mainly for touch, so unless every pc will end up being with touch, then it is a no go.

    Just let the people decide if they want a normal start menu, or one of yours, just let them have the choice instead of forcing it upon them. Make the change to the new view alot easier, and more smooth, so that fx the next operation system, might be more + with the new look, and at a end it will go to complete metro style.
    Just a thought.

    Peace  –

    • if you want to find sth which is not on your desktop just go to the place where the startbutton was (this move is still like reflex) and klick in the lower right corner. everything you need can be putted on the startscreen and if you’re looking for sth which isnt there just start typing! really man just try it out you will get used to it.

  10. It’s only a couple million more sales copies of Windows 8 that they might lose out on, so I don’t think they are that worried about it.  I mean, that’s just a drop in the bucket of profit for them, right? Right? (Steve Jobs is laughing in his grave right about now … and Cook is now breathing a sigh of relief for his ending 2012 sales quotas.)

  11. i think Microsoft is cutting off their nose to spite their face.  I am planning on staying with Windows 7 until such time I have to change. Windows 8 is going to be another Vista but worse.

    Windows 8 is going to FAIL drastically on the desktop, but might fair well on mobile devices.

    Once again it is time for Ballmer to go.

  12. maybe it’s time to use another operating system

    • yeah, lets use linux :).

      • Linux, as great as it is, will NEVER be in the work arena!  Not until someone can make if more user friendly & less cumbersome…
        While Apple has switched their OS to Unix & have made it a lot more user friendly the price for Apple hardware is still rather outrageous (not to mention their holy-than-though attitudes).  But is Apple can make it user freindly why can’t ubuntu make Linux more user freindly???

        • I don’t think its a matter of them not being able to make ubuntu more user friendly, its more a matter of the type of people who usually use linux. You will often find advanced users using linux who know their way around a computer, and know how to use the terminal to accomplish many basic tasks which a average user could not and would require a UI to do them. Linux always stood for a completely open OS which was entirely open for users to customise, thats perhaps why linux is harder to use for many people. The creators of many linux distros, wrongfully assume, that performing certain tasks which are easy to them, hence must be easy for everyone else.
          “Linux, as great as it is, will NEVER be in the work arena!”, i sort of agree and disagree with you on that point. Yes, linux will never be found on the average office Joe’s desk, but linux is being used in enterprise a lot. For example, Googles servers (which power the search engine and many other services) run a stripped down and heavily modified version of linux. This very website is more than likely on a linux server. I guess linux is used differently depending on the work environment.

      • no luck even with ubuntu 12.04 their navigating system and wine compatibility are much worst then windows 8.

  13. It’s like a car without a steering wheel. I think Microsoft should give us the option to hide or unhide start button.

  14. Personally, I never had much use for start menu and especially not start button: The 1st thing I did with windows 7 was to remove them and use my own menu system!  That being said; I simply deplore the the metro interface and bypass in on the consumer preview. Given a choice of having to utilize metro >> then I will deep-6 windows and go back to using a fully customized version of Linux. I was pleasantly surprised by overall performance of windows but I WILL NOT be compromised into having to tolerate that ugly, clutzy metro interface. If Microsoft leaves open the ability to by-pass it, then I will probably use windows 8 but otherwise not I hate a cluttered desktop and that is the reason I haven’t bought into the tablet market. I realize some people like to have an app for this and an app for that and waste time flicking through all those apps. I’m not one of them.  The thing that I have always liked in the past about windows is that there is sooo much you do to improve the interface and functionality of windows. I will still install pre-release of 8 when it comes out but I am quickly losing excitement. As it stands now, Windows 8 does perform much better on a low-end netbook than windows 7. That aside, most would think I am running 7 on my netbook. Faster machines don’t seem to gain that much of an advantage as I see it. Just have to wait to see if Microsoft pulls their heads out of their butts before they release a final product. If I wanted to use an “OS for Dummies” then I would go with Apple and let them tell me what I want or need.

    • “If I wanted to use an ‘OS for Dummies'”, that’s right!!! You tell ’em!! Us power users wouldn’t want to use an OS that makes things easier and more productive, no sir!!! Making things simpler and putting updated important information on tiles in one place is for baby’s!!!

  15. ITsupportchap / May 30, 2012 at 11:36 am /Reply

    having always sworn by, and stuck by Windows, maybe now is the time to look at Macs?  Theres the Windows camp and the Mac camp, always has been, but now some idiot wants the windows camp to change, so the Mac camp stay the Mac camp, and the Windows camp are told, not asked, that they have to change.
    Lets face it, everyone will either move up to, or stick wioth Win7 for a few years, so that either a climbdown by MS occurs, Win9 comes out as we want it, or Mac or another O/S offers users what they want.

    The Customer is always right, and to prove it, they will vote with their feet!

    and this is from a MS certified of 10years, shaking his head at MS.

    • Yada Yada Yada / May 30, 2012 at 1:20 pm /Reply

      Really?  Go to a Mac?  Because it offers users what they want?  OMG, are you hearing yourself?  I bought a Mac Pro (not MacBook Pro) with EyeFinity ATI video.  Apple does NOT support EyeFinity for one canvas across multiple displays.  MANY MANY things about Mac don’t work as users want them to.  Apple does what THEY want, not what the USER wants.

      So.. Start button goes away, and you are jumping ship completely?  I say go.  These silly hollow threats are just that.. silly.  If you do go, please shut up about Windows.  You will have made your point by leaving.  That said, you won’t go.  You are just making idle threats like everyone that pouts. 

      All said, I don’t think you should go.  Windows 8 is amazing.  Truly amazing.  Windows 7 is amazing, but looks dated now.

      • Yada Yada Yada / May 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm /Reply

        By the way, don’t take this as me against Apple.  I think Apple makes great products.  I own many.  I prefer Windows, but I recognize OS X as a great OS.

        I just cannot believe how people seem to forget the complains against OS X and how it is locked down to what Apple envisions.

        Apple is good.  They have great products.

        I prefer Windows, but that is me.  Well, and over a billion others.  🙂

        • these complaints of jumping ship because of something sooo small reminds me of the people who claim they will move to canada after obama care has been placed into effect. Its as if they are oblivious to the fact that we got social health care. When these ship jumpers realize how the mac os works, have a chance to experience the beach ball of death, and other issues ( like not being able to ever turn off vsync in the video properties, or have any form of customization for things like that ) they will come back running to windows. metro is pretty much exactly like the start button, but a lot more elaborate. it doesnt take a sequence of 30 buttons to get to the desktop, so there really is no issue.

  16. i tried windows 8 an when i went to uninstall it i lost my whole O/S of windows 7…now i have to go and buy a new OS of 7……windows 8 is no good

    • mmm.. that is why back up features or image files exists. I am sorry to tell you but that is not a problem with W8… You could have run both systems in the same machine from two separate partitions; you could have run W8 from a virtual machine; you could have installed it as an update for W7 with the provision of making a back up and/or an image of your original drive. That is more user knowledge that a faulty OS.. And this is coming from a NOT POWER user but only a regular user that took a little more time making some research b4 installing the OS in my main machine (BTW, going against MS advise not to do so.) That is called preparation my friend. And technically, you should have some sort of licence for the W7 in your computer, shouldn’t you??? I don get why you have to purchase the licence again…

    • You can’t upgrade any version of Windows, then revert back to your old version, simply by uninstalling the new one, and Microsoft makes this pretty clear to people everytime they make a pre-release version of Windows available to consumers. This is why people need to make sure they know what they’re doing before they do it, and have what it takes to undo it, in case they change their mind later. It isn’t Microsoft’s fault that you screwed up. Sorry for being harsh.

      That said, it’s possibe that your system manufacturer created a System Restore partition on the hard drive. Reboot your computer, and when the press F2 or F12 (or whatever function key your system manufacturer says to press) to enter the boot options menu instruction appears, press that function key. (Don’t press the one for the System Setup, be sure it’s for Boot Options.) If there is a System Restore partition, it should be listed as an option. Unfortunately, you will lose all your data because System Restore will wipe your hard drive and restore the system to what it was when the computer was new. Hopefully you have your data backed up somewhere. Good luck.

  17. I have 12 machines on Windows 8 – desktops to laptops – and truly love the Metro interface – for sure the removal of the START menu – isnt going to bother us one bit …. seems like a waste, but I do know how users can be … we do have those … and so I can see the ….. I dont like change, writing on the wall ….  Kill it for us is good … keep it for others … YUK ..!!! but it should be an option.  maybe charge more for that feature – just JOKING!!!!

  18. If you were to reach MS Word under the old system (assuming you have not manually added MS Word shortcut to desktop/task bar) how many levels you would have to go? With W8 it is just a breeze. You will get used to it in a day or so.

  19. I had told myself many times I was not even going to spend my time backing up my files on my windows 7 computer to install windows 8, but I chose to do so and while I like the speed and reliability of windows 8 – not having a start button / menu was quite diss appointing and made it hard to use the operating system since I’ve been used to having it. I did manage to find a 3rd party software application that allowed me to return the start feature. It has certainly made windows 8 function much better with it. I have no idea why Microsoft is so set on having people not have the feature and rely so much on the metro interface. I would rather have an option when first loading windows 8 for the first time to have an option of how I want it to function – whether to have metro even appear, have it load directly to the desktop, or give both. Of course the start button would also be an option to pick from. Hopefully Microsoft will create a change on how it operates prior to the final release or at least allow 3rd providers to write a program returning the lost feature that most people seem to miss.

  20. Looks like Windows 7 will be a very attractive OS for many of us who do more than what a tablet equips a worker with.
    E. Morris

    • I am a pretty extreme power user, at my desk in the office I usually have at least 4 screens I am working off of. I have been living in Win8 through DP and CP for the sake of testing since DP came out now and I really don’t understand where you pulled this from, just sayin. I find the usability to be a little different, but it hasn’t slowed me down or limited my work in any way, and I have found some of the new features in the start menu and some of the *cutting the fat* changes behind the scenes to be quite helpful.

      However if you like 7, it is a perfectly fine OS. For the sake of being honest with ourselves though you can let the whole unfriendly to power-users excuse go. I see a lot of complaining about the change, but no compelling reasons why it is less productive or worse. It seems like most of this is just people not ready to accept change.

    • alexrogers1991 / June 2, 2012 at 11:10 am /Reply

      agreed man 😀

  21. To me Windows 8 is not just a evolution of Windows, but more a revamping of how Windows customers interact with Windows devices. Windows 7, great on a desktop or non touch laptop, but miserable on phones and tablets. This new interface is their attempt
    to have the same interface over a large number of different devices. In the future whether you pick up a phone, tablet, laptop, or boot up your desktop. If it is running Windows, you will be greeted with a very familiar environment. It may be uncomfortable now, but in the future, it will come really easy.

  22. I am a guy who loves to try new things but at my expenses. when i tried DP8 i hated the metro and within a hour went back to desktop. with CP8 i run it like normal win 7 and if they try to lock it i will simply try to unlock it. If macosX could not stop hackintosh i am 100% windows will fail. It is not as if ms windows is the only os around.

  23. Robert Burnham / May 30, 2012 at 11:50 am /Reply

    The Windows 8 interface can work in some cases, for some people. For example, I know people who typically use only program at a time, such as their browser. The full-screen Metro app style would be perfect for them. And it might prompt people to get a touch monitor. In fact, with a touch screen and casual computer usage, Windows 8 could shine.

    I am just not one of those users. I am a multi-tasker who depends on the flexibility of the desktop. Sure I play games in full screen mode, but I also play games in windowed mode so I can maintain access to the desktop with just a click of the mouse. The Windows desktop just does what I want it to do and the Start menu is very functional and easy to use. Windows 7 and Mac OSX are operating systems that try to stay out of the way of the user so we can be productive.

    Windows 8 gets in the way and offers up very little in the way of new benefits for all the old benefits they are taking away. By not letting us boot directly to the desktop is not what I want. By relegating the desktop to basically just another app, that tells me that this operating system is being geared towards another kind of user that is not me. And not even giving us the option of a Windows 7 Start button is too jarring at this point. Maybe if and when touch-screens are commonplace that will change, but we are not there yet.

    This means I will be sticking with Windows 7 for the foreseeable future. I am not loyal to any brand, I just use whatever OS does the most for me. Being a gamer and a person who loves to upgrade my hardware often, that means using Windows 7.

    •  I am a power user as well, I have talked about that elsewhere on here. I have been primarily living in Windows 8 for testing since DP and CP. I work off of four screens on my desk, and I have had no problems doing everything I did in 7 with the benefits that come with 8 (are you familiar with these benefits?… just wondering).

      It is interesting that many, including you don’t really explain how this is bad for us power-users. Have you given this a try, or are you just reading the posts of a few upset bloggers or commenters and making assumptions. I think if people could give compelling reasons why this change is bad, Microsoft would be more likely to listen. In my use of it, I don’t see any reason why these start menu changes are bad, and initially I confess I didn’t’ like it when I heard the start menu button was going away. This changed as I started to really use Win8 CP though. It seems what we have here is a fear of or disdain towards change, and that is hardly a compelling reason not to change things.

  24. Well here we go again. Microsoft’s way or no way. What a bunch of arrogant jerks!!!! Well there is always Windows 7, and when MS sun downs that Linux. Hope this spells the doom of upper management at MS.

  25. I am a PC user.Don’t care for note pad, ipad , Iphone or texing.
    I’m in to making all type of video. The new feture in Windows 8, I do not care for.Just give me more Speed!


    • Yada Yada Yada / May 30, 2012 at 3:39 pm /Reply

      Based on what data?  Microsoft clearly listens to their customer feedback.  

      Because a person, a group, or more say they don’t like something doesn’t mean it will change.  Microsoft has a vision.  I personally love their vision.  Not all will.  Oh well.  They probably read the concerns, thought “hmm, having a start menu does not go with our vision” and moved on.Is your statement based on anger?   I ask because you screamed it.I love not having the start menu.  It doesn’t work with the new paradigm of Metro/Desktop and the new Windows.I say. kudos Microsoft!  Good for you for holding to your vision!

  27. I have been working with windows8 previe and I like it very much

  28. Reading many comments on here, and generally around the web, the trend appears to be that people are not satisfied with this change. Lets hope Microsoft don’t regret doing this. 

    • If you went to every web site on the Internet, and read every review of Windows 8 that has been posted, you would have read the opinions of an incredibly small percentage of Windows users. Just to pick a number, and say there are 1,000,000 actual users of Windows 8 (although I think there are considerably more than that), and only 1% of them posted a comment on the internet, that would be 10,000 comments. Do you think you’ve read enough comments to know what the majority of even that 1% of users think? I highly doubt it.

  29. yeh well trust microsft to be stupid and try to keep up with the jones, not going to work still say keep the start menu and split the apps and windows through the start up sequence so we boot into the one we want not to be ruled upon by microft and other idiots that dont ask what people want, not what some idiot that never sees or talks to people wants

  30. Onura, quite frankly I’ve been following this discussion in regards the start button. I am not a power user (aka programmer or IT expert or so) but I DO use my machine heavily as a consultant with most of the office applications plus many other programs/tools that have to work on the desktop.

    I do not have a touch-base computer. I have a regular laptop (getting even a little older if you mind) and I use the keyboard and touchpad (or wirelesss mouse) of the laptop on the go and a wireless keyboard and mouse at home/office. 

    I have found W8 working almost flawlessly in every single aspect. From recognizing drivers, to being able to operate almost every single piece of software I have from before, to interface with the start screen with no problem, to actually customize my start screen the way I want it including shortcuts for restart and shut down (not that the current process through the charms bar is really cumbersome  because it is not!) to actually utilize my Rocket dock desktop addition to launch all my programs (the way I used to do it in W7 BTW) which has trained me to avoid the usage of the ‘famous” start button.

    I have (on purpose) set the rocket dock not to launch with the start up of the computer so I could get used to the start screen and although my preference is to still use it regularly once the PC is up and running, I did not find any issue in finding or launching for that matter, the programs from the start screen.

    I have not used the metro apps that much, but to create a kind of a dashboard on my start screen with items like social media updates from my main friends, my mail and messaging update, currency exchange rates, weather updates and so forth, which has proven to be very useful (almost like in my W7 phone (which I love and choose with no hesitation over the iPhone or the android OS BTW.).

    I have spent most of the time using the desktop (like 99% of the time) and being a regular user with NO IT background, I was able to learn (VERY quickly) how to move around the OS without the Start button.

    So, said all that, It is getting very tiring to get all this bitching (excuse my language) about the start button. it was foreseeable that it was going to be removed; and I can see Microsoft having good reasons to do so as part of a change management process towards what its going to be their strategy for the future… PERIOD.

    Being a consultant and dealing with change management and resistance to change all the time, I can tell you that sometimes there is a need to push (even sometimes hard and down the throat) the change the way MS is doing it, specially with “techies” (sorry, POWER USERS) that are so adamant to complain about insignificant things like this. Get over it! it is happening.. so, live with it!!!

    Its a mouthful even for “Techies” to state that this kind of stupid things will make the OS DOA. As if they were the main population using the computers… come on…

    Options??? sure.. stay with W7 or XP for that matter. However, how trends are going, better embrace change now WILLINGLY, than getting pushed to embrace it later on…


    • Rogue Consumer / May 30, 2012 at 3:02 pm /Reply

      We are forced to embrace these changes because corporations see consumers as sheep to be herded into the next fenced in area. We willing bleat our way into their corrals and wonder why the gate hits us in the rear end. We line up to buy every little gadget they dream up and ask for more and bigger and BETTER! What I want to know is why Microsoft is morphing into Apple.

      •  What I want to know is how MS is morphing into Apple. Now we are at a point where even those of us that don’t really use the Metro apps much can open our start screen and see at a glance what the weather is, if we have any new e-mails, if there is anything coming up on our calender while typing in the name of the app we want and hitting enter (like many users have been doing since vista). Of course we could just delete all the live tiles and metro apps, but if we don’t, we can’t have all that information without even opening the metro apps if we prefer their desktop counter parts. I find that both useful, and unavailable on my current installation of OS X, maybe I should keep looking?

        If you are just complaining about losing the start button fine, but if you are talking about Win8 as a whole, many of the changes we see in it right now are a good reflection of how many people are using their computers. If you read a lot of the background behind many of the new features, it starts to become clear that they are not leading us, we are in most cases leading them.

  31. Will you will get use to it!!

  32. Randy_rogers38 / May 30, 2012 at 12:37 pm /Reply

    when you want to fundamentally change something that ALL people who use windows have utilized and understood as a function required for interaction with their computers for 2 decades and become very good at….then you can do it your way…but nobody has to follow that path with you.

    Your touch centric O/S isn’t for everyday computing…nobody likes to stare DOWN all the time to use a touch enabled tablet AND nobody wants to constantly have to reach and touch the screen in front of their faces ALL the time to get something done…this O/S works fine for those who hold tablets or phones in their hands but for productivity….the touch enabled interface is super sucky since most monitors aren’t touch enabled today.

    With that said…to use the metro gui…you have to know how… and why do I want to perform multiple steps just to search for what I want when I used to could use the start button to get to everything I needed or had to for productivity or system maintenance or to get to my devices.

    Windows 7 is relatively new still and works FINE for ALL my needs…I can customize it to what I prefer or need and it works extremely well in the business model…introducing options to configure to my liking is fine…FORCING a change I don’t want IS NOT!

    So you go ahead and try to FORCE the issue… and the market place will respond as always..with what IT wants…this isn’t it..to be FORCED to do something I do not like is not usually a pleasant thing and this isn’t something people will  pay for either so feel free to lay that egg all you want Microsoft…you don’t want to listen to you consumer base…then you can pay the price like every other market player.

    Bad Luck to you sir!

    a DISGRUNTLED “non-upgrading” consumer

  33. love start menu do not remove it

  34. Anindya Chatterjee / May 30, 2012 at 12:48 pm /Reply

    MS I am also dead set, no start menu mode, no windows 8 for me.. Simply put, I want my freedom to use an OS which I buy (remember you are not giving away a free/research product). I don’t want be controlled by a new OS rather I would like more control over a new OS. And its not the 90’s where windows was the only viable option, so MS if you are dumb enough to realize this, people like me would rather go for Ubuntu/Apple or stick to Win 7 at least.

  35. I think it will be a confusing mess to a lot of older users and users that are used to using the older Windows systems.
    There is one other alternative to some. Linux may be getting more users. Yeah. Good one Microsoft.

  36. I have used Developer Preview and Consumer Preview of Windows8 for the last two months or so and I must say I got used to the Metro interface pretty quickly. I don’t use the start menu at all. All I need is pinned to a taskbar. No garbage in sight. In short – I will upgrade from Windows XP now.

  37. Sadly, sticking with Windows 7 is only a short term answer! Eventually support will end, no drivers for newer hardware, newer software won’t be supported, etc.  (just how many of you stuck with Windows 98 when Win2000 or XP came out?)
    As I have mentioned in several previous post I just installed the free util from Stardock’s Start8 (www.stardock.com) to get back the Start Button in the Win8 Preview.  No it is not exactly the same, but close & gives me functionality to make things easier & smoother.  As for my own Apps, I just put shortcuts on the Desktop (basically using it as a central menu).  I do not know why Stardock (or anyone else) will have a problem creating the Start8 App (or something similar) to work in the final release!!!
    And as far as the Desktop starting on login I am sure there will be a way to add the Desktop App to a Startup Group (or worsecase, adding it to the Run section of the Registry!)!
    NOTHING is impossible so everyone stop fretting so much…

  38. I find it refreshing to use windows 8 on a new tablet PC and on a 5 year old HP wide screen laptop.  Both work better, faster, increased battery life and yes no start button.  On the metro screen just type what “doc” you are searching for…its there.  Load desktop short cuts on desktop and apps on Metro, what’s the fuss.  I find peoples comments interesting and informative if…you have actually loaded and used windows 8 for 30 days.  If not then you are not qualified to put down windows 8, that’s sort of like putting down a MAC without ever using one daily (not a MAC user but there is one in the family…it works great).   Great job so far Microsoft!  I like what I am using…Windows 8…no confusion using the mouse, no problems searching, creating short cuts, no problem networking…faster too, and for some reason not prejudice to tiles (did not get dizzy using them)  and did not become vegetarian of change political affiliation due to actually using Windows 8 productively and running a business on it…

  39. Windows 8 does not belong on a workstation or laptop.  Fine for tablets or entertainment pc’s that don’t really do anything productive.  If they get rid of Windows 7 in favor of Windows 8, I am switching to LINUX

  40. this is a horrible idea, they should just forget about doing this, if they do this. I am NEVER buying windows again!

  41. Also, I for-see Windows 8 sucking ass and being the end of Microsoft forever…

  42. It bothered me at first, back when the rumors of the Start menu’s demise first started. But I’ve come to think of the Metro view as BEING the Start menu. Which, technically, I think Microsoft does too. It even says “Start” in the upper left corner of the Metro view, doesn’t it? Anyway, I use the Desktop view in Windows 8. I have icons on it for all the programs I use, and other than running Apps from the Microsoft store, I don’t really use the Start menu (or Metro view) at all. So it no longer bothers me that there is no Start menu. Because there really is. It’s just called Metro now.

    I’m actually beginning to like Windows 8, and I can’t wait until next week to get the Release Preview downloaded and installed.

    •  I get where you are coming from. When I first heard there would be no start menu, I was thinking “oh crap.”  Then when CP came out I went from DP to CP and realized it wasn’t so bad. It kinda makes more sense for it not to be there given how the hot corners and charms work anyway.

  43. Have not seen anything to love about Windows 8….I live on the Desktop….probably will not go to MacLand…will probably stay with Windows 7 and XP until Widows 9 comes out..

    •  I typically live also live in the desktop extensively. Since Win8 DP came out I have live in it extensively in DP, and now CP. At my desk I live in desktop extensively on four screens. I really don’t see your point when you say you live on the Desktop. Still, if you want to stick with Win 7 it is a good OS. Just the I live on the Desktop excuse is weak, and makes me wonder if you have ever really used Win8.

  44. I believe it is going to be a bad choice,with no start menu ,a whole lot of people will be lost with the new choice of being forced to uses windows 8 the way microsoft want’s, but it’s all in what the people will chose to use,as for me I would rather stick with XP and windows 7.

  45. ITsupportchap / May 30, 2012 at 2:12 pm /Reply

    just to be clear , I work in IT support, so I’ll be one of the ones handling all the complaints and issues caused by losing the start button!  its not my use of it, its the hundreds of users that will have problems and issues, and they always ring the IT department, so I would say I have a right to speak more than some, because I’ll be dealing with the aftermath 9-5, Mon to Fri !
    I have  a Win7.5 phone, 2 in fact, works and personal, and they work great (although why the hell MS stopped the ability to sync Outlook via USB is bizarre)
    in a touch screen enviroment,  yes, Metro works,  but since when did most users in the workplace sit there rubbing their touch screens? 

    Metro on tablets/slate  and phones  yes, but on a desktop/server with a normal monitor , mouse and keyboard, FFS, have some sense !

  46. Joel Puig Rubio / May 30, 2012 at 2:23 pm /Reply

    I still haven’t seen anything of Windows 8 that liked me, I like one millon times Windows 7, Microsoft isn’t listening our feedbacks, I really need the Start Button, and I don’t know why Microsoft have to remove it! I think Windows 8 will be a very, very big FAIL!

    •  “Microsoft isn’t listening our feedbacks” depends on who you think our is in the statment. There are two sides to most things like this, so Microsoft is “listening” some feedback anyway.

  47. I like Windows 8 the way it is. WINDOWS 8 IS AMAZING.
    I think MS will sell a lot of WINDOWS 7.
    Perhaps MS want to sell more WINDOWS 7. ??????????

  48. Forget it, I refuse to go to Apple as I am not going to be boxed into having to buy overpriced crap from a company that just cannot seem to get the idea that programs-parts and games DO NOT have to be OS Exclusive. I will just stay with Windows 7

  49. I will be staying with Windows 7 for my home PC, as the Metro start menu gets in the way of everything I am doing, just when I want to open a simple application like the Calculator. The Windows 7 Start Menu, for example (if I am watching a Movie on my computer while doing anything else) maybe would cover a tiny portion of what I am watching, Windows 8 I can’t see anything.
    Another thing, using the search from within the Start Menu, ok its alright for applications, but I also use it for all the control panel items, instead of just typing devices, now I have to type devices, and press 3 other buttons or use the mouse, to go to the Settings section, I want type devices, enter like how it is in windows 7, as a Systems Administrator, this would slow my productivity, and is a hindrance.
    I read an article on how the Metro menu is ment make using the “StartMenu” quicker for opening applications, It may be true for Touch computers like a tablet, but I am a Desktop User, and that article is a laugh for using the computer this way.
    In my opinion, sadly for Desktop users, I think Windows 8, will/could turn in to Windows ME/Vista.
    How can I recommend a product like this to Desktop Users, when Windows 7 is going to be cheaper, and more Desktop User Friendly.

  50. There are SO many consumers out there that still need the ‘start button’ i believe almost all businesses will struggle to adapt to the windows 8 interface. Microsoft should have never crossed the path of a desktop machine and tablet. They are 2 completely different products, so why try and make them the same? they do not have the same usability. The owners of each have different needs. My opinion on windows 8, is that i will not be upgrading, and shall stick with windows 7. I dislike the concept of windows 8 enough to say i would much prefer to purchase a mac, however currently there is no need for me to upgrade my whole system. I know many others will believe this way also.

  51.  http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/windows8/microsoft-windows-8-businesses-143238
    leave the start menu  alone please

  52. Onura,

    When Windows 7 arrived, I built two new
    I-7 computers, one for my wife and one for myself. I purchased two
    copies of Windows 7 & two copies of Office 2010 from Fry’s.
    Twice, on boot, my wife’s computer told her the operating system was
    counterfeit and she couldn’t work for a week until I got home and
    contacted Microsoft to have it re-validated. She finally got so
    frustrated she had me reinstall her old copies of XP & Office
    2000 and has been happy ever since. I primarily use Ubuntu (12.04)
    and didn’t even bother to have my Windows 7 re-validated the last
    time I tried to use it. Microsoft successfully made Windows 7 secure
    (read difficult to use) and frustrating (read by throwing up
    “counterfeit” nag screens) so it doesn’t surprise me they
    arrogantly choose to ignore their customer base. Perhaps with Windows
    8 they are trying to recreate the “Vista” experience.

  53. Just another reason I will stay with Windows 7. I have come to the conclusion, Windows 8 will be the equivilant of Wiondows ME

  54. i do not care about the Start button and really like Metro and wish (or hope) they make a Google Sketch Up app for the Windows Store because I love it sooo much!!

  55. I will not be installing windows EIGHT.
    It is me that must make the choice, not Microsoft.
    So there you have it!!
    You supply it, I will make the choice NOT you!!!

  56. To much of a change all at once. It should be more gradule.  Metro is fine if all you have ever used is are “mobile app devices”.  But those of us who grew up on the standard Windows GUI will not readily accept such a drastic change.

  57. Well, most businesses have either just recently deployed Windows 7 or are in process of deploying Windows 7, which will probably be the new XP. Windows 9 will be out before you see any serious consideration beyond Windows 7, especially latge companies.

  58. So far, I think I’ll stay with Win7 Pro – I have it on 4 PCs. Win8 would confuse the hell out of at least 2 users here, plus the expense.

  59. Waiting for final preview version but as it stands right now I would go with Linux Mint over Windows 8 any day. There is very little that I like about it so far, Hope they can get it right before final release.

  60. Most people here obviously completely failed to learn how to use the new “start menu” properly. It’s as simple as hitting the windows key on your keyboard and just type the first letter of whatever screen you want to load. For example you want to open the Control Panel? Hit the windows key, type C and bam you’ll see the shortcut to it immediately and be able to open it as fast as you could on Windows 7. I actually find it easier like this. I for one, work in IT and have been using the Consumer Preview as a main OS since day 1. I do presentations to my clients, use heavily reporting tools, SQL Server and many other software without any issues whatsoever. The OS is very responsive and aside from a slightly high CPU usage I couldn’t find any flaws to it so far. 

    •  Thanks for the hint. But how do I see a list of shortcuts to *all* my installed programs? Sometimes I can’t think of the name of the one I’m looking for.

      • go to the start screen and right click. you will find a button ‘all apps’ in the lower right corner. click it and you will see all your apps

  61. Seems just pedantic NOT to give users the choice of a start button … what is Microsoft afraid of?

  62. Well I like the idea of a change, that is what makes technology great, things evolve but if there is the possibility of giving people option of doing what suits them best I think it should be a plus. Let’s state what we like and dislike and hopefully Microsoft would be listening. I am sure they know what they are doing, that is why the y have always been on top.

  63. If Microsoft allow a Start > Programs menu (or a third party comes to the rescue), I might buy Windows 8.
    Otherwise, I’ll be looking for a Windows 7 license and/or Linux Mint.

  64. With so many users preferring a start menu, why disappoint them,it doesn’t make sense. At least give people the opportunity to choose, and make the hack unneccessary. Its a no brainer for me. 

    • May seem like a no brainer, but in reality, it shows you don’t understand at all.  I am tired of trying to explain it, the truth is out there.  People like you are just unwilling to use simple logic while using the new system to understand how it works.  I will give you a clue, in Windows 3.1, windows ran on top of DOS, in windows XP, the command prompt runs on top of the GUI.  There is a correlation here.  If you understand that, you will see the start menu is superfluous.

  65. Mouradlayadi / May 31, 2012 at 4:10 am /Reply

    the start button make easy to use pc, but we can work with out,
    it’s question of time.

  66. Robertandmoira / May 31, 2012 at 4:21 am /Reply

    Lets move on. Forget about start button.  The new system is the way forward

  67. mornoffi no a start button on windows8.this seems a very insecure wai an operating system

  68. Removing the Start Menu is big shit.

  69. Truly amazing comments.  Get into the typical car, and simple tasks like turning on the A/C or tuning a radio station happen in a variety of ways – turning knobs, pushing buttons, touching screens, sliding levers, and probably more. None of these are typically top reasons to select or reject the car.  It’s a machine that provides a utility, and learning how to engage the different parts of the machine takes all of a few seconds.  By the next week, it takes no thought or effort at all.

    But make it a computer, and suddenly it is a decision of life or death, Hatfields or McCoys, Republicans and Democrats, capitalism or socialism, and yes, Microsoft versus Apple.  Not for me.

    Desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, smartphones, game consoles, etc. are all machines that have only one purpose – make my life better.  If I have to click, double-click, tap, double-tap, swipe, claw, or speak, it won’t make or break my day.

  70. Indra Nawawi Daeng Parani / June 1, 2012 at 9:03 pm /Reply

    Dear Onuora,
    Passing through the Microsoft Windows Software timeline, there’re so many Operating System that had been modified and become branches, secte and even into a small fraction spread in the environmental computer community where we have to adapt and use them. There’s no way out except to take them for granted and all are meaningful only if we’re lucky to choose the best option for freedom and use them for our best comfort.
    In this era, the workshop has been working very hard to please the users by decraring the software earlier to the public hoping to have feedbacks and hearings from the user in order to maximize the use of the Software Product. The communication system sound good, but still leave some unfortunate, even it had try very hard the decrease the gap. We understand that our computing machines would never stop for there is always ways provided by Microsoft in Windows to still use other Windows Operating System which is suitable for the machine. 
    The first sight and the start buttons doesn’t matter, for it can be ajusted and modified into many different shapes and colors in our favor as long as we master the computer desktop and control panels. This is the unique method provided for our freedom in Windows to find out and do it by ourself. For the first time user, it would be difficult at the beginning, but later everything move better than the previous Windows Releases. On June 1, 2012. Microsoft will declare its new Windows Release Preview 2.5 GB in which it will be release for the Windows followers as a final production where we haven’t seen it. So why turn to other computer software?
    Thank you.   

  71. Build 8400 works seamlessly. I like it.

    The Ahha moment? The Start Menu “Metro Tiles” is the new
    landscape.  It can be expanded to have apps of
    your persuasion.

    The Familiar “Desktop” can be pinned there as well and as well to
    the taskbar once you have it up. I get it NOW!

    We all have to think outside of the box and prove the potential until there
    is change. By stepping back assessing to moving beyond what becomes “The
    Familiar”. Learning by doing.

    Hmmm! As for Enterprise use… That is a determination IT has to grapple with. As with any software it will be tweaked and integrated into their IT Business Culture.

    I work with Win7 that is just starting to be refreshed from XP . Win7 has the the Home premium splash screen as each business builds their own desktop from software they use as well as the enterprise wide apps.

    At home is win7, XP and variety of Mac OSXs……Variety is the spice of life………

  72. I will stick with xp for now and maybe update to windows 7 but I will not be bullied my the mighty microsoft . I like the simlpicity of the start menu which enables me to do what I want easily.
    I will migrate to apple of this goes ahead at least they listen to their CUSOMERS.

    Microsoft should at least give us a choice,it will be their loss

    • And you are going to tell us that you actually tried Windows 8?  I guarantee if you use Windows XP, that everything you think you can do simply on XP can be so much more efficient on 8.  How can 10 minute boot times be better than the 15 odd seconds it takes my 6 year old PC to boot?  I am tired of people asking for a choice.  You made your choice, as dumb as I think it is.  MS is listening to its customers.  It is using telemetry of us who actually use Windows 8.  Since you obviously will not be buying Windows 8, you really aren’t a customer.

  73. alexrogers1991 / June 2, 2012 at 11:01 am /Reply

    leave a tablet os on a tablet and a desktop os on the desktop .. there is a reason a desktop is not a tablet and that is because it actually DOES WORK :O … and at least.. having been a mac owner for a year now.. i can say that apple knows how to do os updates.. after all they give the user a choice.. they didnt just kill dvd playback with lion when it became a digital download did they? and its still in the developer release 3 of mountain lion as well… Apple realizes that many use isos and that an internal cd drive is worth making external.. but you dont see them axing dvd playback just because ” who uses cds.. *windows 8 dvd playback removed COUGH* oh and btw.. unlike windows and their damn ” piracy concerns.. on a mac i can mount my recovery show hidden files and click the install mac os button which downloads a disk image from apples servers that it uses to reinstall your os over the internet.. crash it burn to disc and VOILA as many cds as you need.. none of this ” 1 copy only bs” .. so yes im a windows guy but from support, to how their computers are made all the way to implementation apple knows how to care for their varying users.. after all they disnt just go BAM iOS suck it.. and thts what microsoft is doing.. they are basically saying ” BAM.. windows phone .. dont like it screw you o.o “

  74. oh people come on, stop arguing about the start button. it is gone! you will get used to it.

  75. “ViStart” worked just fine on Win8CP/RP.
    “ClassicShellSetup” works better.

  76. Naniboot the 18th / September 16, 2012 at 2:32 pm /Reply

    I installed the latest win 8 build, used up 4 days wondering what the huh?
    I like the Metro for web browzing and simple kiddie games. Can be a
    pain when I have to flip back and forth to do regular desktop work.
    The missing start button and menus did tick me off for awhile.
    Here’s my circular journey.

    I downloaded a Chinese win8mastersetup menu addon, to make things better.
    Could only manage to change 90 % to English. It worked, but the more I used it, the more I decided that it’s too big with many ways of doing the same thing.
    Finding out that there IS, a limited desktop menu, by right clicking on bottom left corner, got me thinking, all I really need is a program list and a win apps list.
    Made a toolbar folder in the taskbar, with the lists inside, and even changed the folder to a start button icon in the corner. It’s ok, but too simple to delete.
    I installed ClassicShellSetup. Very customizable. Cut it down to bare bones. Put start programs in hidden C:ProgramDataMicrosoftWindowsStart MenuProgramsStartup folder
    All menu has now, are Shutdown modes, Program and Win app lists, and Document Userfiles button.
    That’s it, great job until, I just realized,
    the programs now show up in the explorer document libraries. So if I wanted to use that instead, and just use power down in the charms on the right side of desktop, I wouldn’t need a start menu!
    Hmm. Microsoft really made me angry for awhile. Well, they gave us umpteen ways to do the same thing. Now we only have a few ways.
    I still think they could have made a slightly better minimalistic menu.
    Redundancy was too cushy for us. Lean is the new Mean!

  77. Well I used the classicshellsetup start menu for awhile.
    Looks kind of funny with only three entries, menu is only
    one inch high!

    Just found there is a way, to just add and subtract links
    for files and folders, on the left corner menu,(Win+X menu),
    that is in Windows 8.
    The program is called Win + X Menu Editor.
    Works great, and I haven’t really modified Win 8 that much.
    Everything I need, are in those basic links.
    Below is what my Win+X menu looks like:

    Task Manager
    Computer Management
    Control Panel
    File Explorer
    Windows Accessories
    My user documents
    Program Apps

    Thanks. I am a now happy win8 user.

  78. It’s dumb people complain about not having the start menu when the start screen is so much faster. You can customize it just like the start menu and there are less clicks that way. So in 7 it’s start>all programs> the program folder> then the program. In 8 it’s Hot corner> program. and if you used 7 efficiently it’s start button> type what you want> enter. Which is the same in 8. It’s not Microsoft’s fault you can’t think outside of a box. Not to mention right clicking in that same corner brings up Control panel, task manager, device manager etc.

  79. Y Apple, Linux is better than both. I only Use Windows (primary) and Linux

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