Microsoft should just add the desktop shortcut in Windows 8 or else…

So here we are doing the dance.

Another prediction of mine is coming true.

In this post, I said:

It is clear to me that forcing users who just aren’t ready for Metro to see it every day is going to be an overwhelming turn off. People spend a lot of money for a PC, they should be able to configure it the way they want.

It would be a sign of self confidence if Microsoft acquiesced and let users have this option. The truth is, if they don’t, a new hacker app (start in desktop) will be created and will instantly be the number one selling app for Windows 8.

Well ladies and gents, two months later and I would like to introduce you to Stardock and their new program – Start8.

This is a cool new utility that will bring back the Windows Start button and let you boot directly to the desktop, bypassing the Start screen.

It’s from Stardock, and it’s free. You can download it from the Stardock web site.

Once installed, you configure it by right-clicking on it’s start button.

Start 8 start menu

Start 8 start menu

You can get this app from here but I wish it wasn’t necessary in the first place.

It’s obviously going to be the first app people look for.

If we all know this, why play the game?

Microsoft, please just throw the option in…

  • http://www.facebook.com/adam.watkins.94617 Adam Watkins

    cool 😛

  • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

    Personally I’ll have to file this under interesting but illogical. If everyone knows that all you have to do is go to the corner and click to launch the start menu, why is this needed or helpful? Things are otherwise as they always were. The hole in my logic could be said to be the learnability part… or not. We don’t know for sure yet. However we do know that they have said they will implement learnability for new users, just like they did with the “start here” with an arrow pointing to the brand new start menu button in Windows 95. It remains to be seen if this learnability they speak of will be good or not, but given how well they are doing with this OS so far I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. If it is well done then everyone will know how to launch the start menu and this remains interesting but illogical.

    • grs_dev

      It’s called denial and resistance to change. Mr Amoubi is an alarmist and if my livelyhood depended on ad revenue as a blogger makeshift journalist then I would probably turn into an alarmist also.
      The start button served a purpose for almost 20 years. Before 1995 it had no purpose, in 1995 it made sense. Even since 1995 it has held Microsoft hostage to a decision that was made in the early 90s that was completely logical for its time but now 20 years later is starting to serve as a constant reminder that Windows Desktop is for Dinosaurs.

      • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

        I won’t say that about Amoubi (I already annoyed him once and he banned me for a spell, so while I do have some thoughts about the way he is doing things with his business I choose to keep them to myself). I will say I do think he is a professional, it shows in some of his posts, but I don’t understand his perspective. I see a lot of people complaining about some aspects of Windows 8 that never really used it, and I had similar thoughts when I heard about some things coming in the next release. However then I use the next release and it isn’t all that I thought it would or wouldn’t be. I sometimes feel like I am reading articles by someone who has read about Windows 8 a lot and not used it much, and I don’t understand why, because there is a lot of “this is bad” or “that is bad” but I don’t see much reasoning behind it, and I have even asked for it before.
        I am fortunate that in my profession and in my blogging I can focus entirely on the users perspective. This is why I have been using Windows 8 since it came out over 9 months ago, I want to be ready for anything when I am looking at future possible tech solutions for the people and clients I work with. If there are valid concerns I need to factor that in, and I really need to and want to know about any valid concerns that others have. It seems like the only valid concern with things like this is learnability, if there is something else, please, lets talk about it. Merely posting that something is bad, or that everyone is going to be doing such and such doesn’t give it much weight.

        • TReyes

          Kudos.. You nailed it!

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Wow..LOL

            You guys are totally off base.

            @steinersupport:disqus @grs_dev:disqus @43853e191bea69808cd54cf09733112c:disqus

            Where do I begin in my self defense – this is fun.

            First, this article was 100% focused on choosing where to boot into and not the start menu.

            The software referenced did BOTH things – Start Menu and Boot choice.

            Also, I am pretty sure I have used Windows 8 a lot more than anyone on this chain but I can’t be myopic about it. I have to extrapolate what other less experienced users will feel.

            If you think they will be thrilled about booting into Metro each time they want to get to the desktop, i have a bridge to sell each of you.

            As for being alarmist, I respect your opinion but I think it’s just because I say the things other blogs are afraid to say.

            🙂

            See Steve, no ban with respect. 🙂

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            I disagree on two aspects of this. First of all I think the claim that you have used it more than anyone else in this chain is a little presumptuous. Unless you had something before the developer preview (other than the popularly played with leaks from earlier this year that many of us are familiar with as well) then we have already established that 1) I and at least one other guy has been using this since the DP dropped as our a main OS. During that time you were still lauding the bravery of others that were “attempting” to use it as their main OS.

            You also say you come from a perspective of being worried about less experienced users. However that is the entire reason I read blogs I don’t agree with, because if any valid points are going to be made, then I want to hear them. However in my testing with less experienced users, booting to metro is perceived as a feature, not a weakness. Now instead of user booting up their computer, loading desktop, and then going to the start menu to choose a program, all user needs to do is select a program. I work with users and I haven’t seen anyone yet that has had a problem with this in my testing. I know I could have added something snappy like “I have a bridge to sell you” to reinforce what I am saying but from what I’ve learned, practical use case experience holds more value any day. Am I saying that some might not like the fact that it doesn’t go directly to the desktop? No clearly you wish it did and others might as well. In day to day use though as I have had other users with limited knowledge use it I haven’t had complaints, and it makes a lot more sense to start with the actual programs you will be using to me.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Hi Steve,

            Good points so I will address.

            I have been using this more than most because unless those others have a BLOG like mine, it hasn’t been their JOB. I have made this my work for almost 3 years so I have pretty much spent more time than most I would wager.

            Regarding booting in to the desktop, all I have said is that Microsoft should add the OPTION. It just seems like a very avoidable and foreseeable issue that is coming.

            If people you know haven’t wanted the desktop, that’s cool but you know that just as many people will not want to. The OPTION is hardly something you can disagree with?

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            I actually have been using it for production on all my computers at home, and one work computer since the DP dropped. That wasn’t the intent, nor something I usually do or did hastily. I just put it it on a partition and started using it, and it went so well that it eventually had a partition on every computer in my house, and my work machine (with proper backups of course). You are calling into question your expertise, do we really want to have this conversation? If we have it fairly and openly we will be getting back into the territory that you banned me for in the past (such as the post where you said rotation wasn’t working on your device and weren’t sure if it was a Win8 issue or a driver issue, but it was already documented online as a driver issue for that system, and any pro worth their salt could have checked that in device manager). You can market yourself as a Win8 pro and that is fine, but to say that you know more than others of us that have been dealing with Win8 as part of their jobs? If that is the case great, please step up your game and let it show in your articles. However I keep making the mistake of thinking that we are talking as colleagues until I am reminded by you that I am talking to an intellectual superior, but when I don’t see sufficient evidence of your superiority in your articles you can imagine that I may not take well to being treated like laymen.

            I also argue that what you suggest is a bad idea because of less knowledgeable users. With the start screen metro and the desktop are unified in a manner that makes sense, while allowing one click access to anything including the desktop or desktop apps. This makes sense if you are on a desktop just as it does a tablet. It makes sense for less advanced users because it is the cleanest and simplest approach. Even if you are on a desktop, you start your computer to do something, not just to look at the desktop. This allows you to do it, launch that program or whatever. However there are and will always be power users that want to do things differently, and there will always be programs that enable them do to things differently. That doesn’t mean that operating systems should bake these changes in, when what the OS is doing makes sense, and better reflects where it seems technology is going. If people want the option you have already given them one, but I disagree that everyone will want to have it. Let the power users have their toys, this power user is happy with this implementation.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            First and foremost, you keep bringing up a ban. As I have said often, I dont mind having any conversation as long as it’s civil, like we are having now.

            You were banned for being rude and not for questioning my expertise. I have a very thick skin for criticism (comes with the territory) just not for rudeness (since I simply control this microphone).

            Regarding the rotation issue for my tablet, what you dont seem to understand is the purpose of this blog. It’s not a static web page but a journey. It was important to document in real time what was happening as it may have been happening to others.

            It was important to note that it could have been a bunch of issues and there would be a bunch of people wondering the same thing. This was inevitably something people who couldn’t afford a Windows 8 tablet at the time (most) would be wondering about.

            I don’t claim to have more IT expertise than you, just know more about this OS because I have spent more time with it. That is still a fact based on the nottion that you dont use Windows 8 for a living I will bet.

            Your second paragraph made no sense to me. I never said everyone would want to have the option I proposed – I just said it made sense to have that option.

            User cases will vary but we should be able to agree that more choice is better than less??

            🙂

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            Why do I keep bringing up the ban? Because the way you run your business and what you post on your blog reflects on your experience, the companies you promote and the times you post something which makes me think, why would someone who should know better post that cause me to question your experience with this at least. You said the post that caused you to ban me was rude yet I never called you stupid in it. All I did was point out that you didn’t deliver on something you said you would for your subscribers. It never said when I signed up that timeliness could only be expected for paid subscribers. It is the same type of discussion we have been having today, except I am pointing out that I can’t speak freely because if I push it too far I can easily become banned again.

            My job is with a few different organizations, and it essentially is to know everything about tech, especially software and even though I am not necessarily partial to windows, that is the area I specialize in. Not much has been happening with windows 7 for quite a while, so awhile ago I turned my focus to windows 8. I tried out the leak last year, and it was a little interesting but there was nothing ground breaking. Then DP dropped, and since then it has been almost my sole focus. I have been clamoring to find potential issues with it, I have had some of the less tech capable try it out, and I spend hours every day on and off the clock researching it. When it comes out I will need to know everything I possibly can about it. Yet with all of my research, all the redundant articles I read about it I have noticed something. I can learn something from talking to a colleague that has had it loaded on his computer and only used it intermittently for a week. I even gained some interesting feedback by talking to a teenager that had been using it for a while. I don’t think my history with Win8 is a hammer, it certainly is not justification for my arguements. When I tell a client that something is better this way as opposed to that way, I don’t say it is better because I have more experience than they do. I say it is better because it takes less memory or requires less clicks.

            Regarding my second paragraph, you said obviously it was the first app people would look for, and you justified that by saying that you were thinking of less advanced computer users. I was pointing out that I disagree, the way things are seems to make more sense for less advanced computer users. If more advanced computer users want this kind of option they can install software like what you’ve shown for it.

            I agree that this back and forth can be fun, I just wish that you could let go of the “I know more” as part of your defense for your perspective. It would allow me to fully respond without wondering if you were going to perceive something else I say as disrespectful when I inevitably call into question your superior Win8 expertise as I feel it isn’t always reflected well in some articles.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Absolutely you cannot “speak too freely” because this is my house. I couldn’t possibly expect to come to your house and “speak too freely” because I am a guest.

            It’s only common sense to me. 🙂

            As you can see from the depth of our banter, I am pretty thick skinned.

            For the final time, you keep alluding to things being better one way or another. You seem to be arguing against yourself. I have never said one way was better than the other. I have only said users should have the CHOICE.

            Regarding the second paragraph, I think you took my quote out of context. When i said it was the first app users would look for, I was talking about the stardock app. I think it is the first app that users (not all) who are tired of logging into Metro first would look for.

            It seems to me that if there is a remote possibility that those users would be a few, it would make sense to give said users a CHOICE.

            By the way, Microsoft did that in Windows Server 2012 so it’s not without precedent (even though i understand Server functionality is different).

            That’s all from me.

            We have kicked this dead horse around enough. If you don’t understand my choice statement, we can just agree to disagree.

            Thanks for the feedback though.

            🙂

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            I was actually planning on exiting the debate after the last comment, however I did want to see how you responded to one aspect of that comment so that I could better determine whether this is a forum worth being part of in the future. It was IMHO one of the best comments you’ve had in this back and forth today. At any rate, let me try to explain my opinion a bit further, I think both sides are pretty clear and there isn’t much of a need for reprisal. Part of what windows has done for better or worse is guide technology by trying to determine the best way to do certain things and make it the default option. I think it is pretty clear that starting with the start page makes the most sense. If Microsoft starts making an option like defaulting to the desktop available at first run, they might not give the start screen a try, and may be less prepared for whatever comes with the future or Windows 9. I have seen it way too many times, where these users do things that take twice as long, or are a lot less secure simply because it is what they are used to. I can imagine the responses, “are you advocating Microsoft limit our choices for our own good”? I kinda am actually. If I want to go to the desktop for an unusual reason, that is one thing, but the typical user will probably want to launch a program. If the option is included it should at least be buried, or again programs like this can be used to make it possible. Right now I think Win8 will be user friendly with a bit of learnability enhancements that are coming and will hopefully be good. If Microsoft caves to any of the remaining blogger demands, I hope they walk softly as they do so to ensure that it continues to operate well in a way that can increase the productivity of less advanced users while continuing to bring forward our relationship with technology. With that, I really don’t think there is much more to say about this.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Hi Steve,

            I had to add that i do agree with you – I think that is exactly why Microsoft is doing that. A fear (or concern) that users would not give Metro a chance if they didn’t have to so they force users into it.

            I just personally disagree with that approach because it seems like a proactive vote of no confidence in that feature from the vendor.

            I believe users are smart. If a feature has value, they will pay attention. If it doesn’t have value, they won’t. This is why we have the 80/20 rule in software. Users communally and intuitively huddle toward the valuable functions.

            The one thing I believe users do not want is restrictions. That’s why they have alternatives and choices.

            No right or wrong, just an opinion. October 26th will shed more light on the issue.

            The debate back and forth is GREAT. It’s exactly what the blog is for and I welcome it. It’s why I end a lot of my editorials with a request for feedback.

            🙂

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            This isn’t me trying to continue the conversation unnecessarily, just an observation. I think our main area of disagreement is how available some options should be. In the past few versions of windows there have been some pretty good advanced options that take third party software to enable or knowing where to look to enable. I think this is a good thing, as 80 percent of the users I work with aren’t very advanced (another practical application of the 80-20 rule☺), and when given a more advanced tool-set they do some pretty crazy things. I think users are smart to a point, a small portion of my user-base are the advanced ones, and I try to make them well aware of their options. However and it is hard to put this kindly, but the majority of my user-base doesn’t fall into this category. They are very smart and wise people but it is difficult to watch some of them use technology. I am all about options, but I think that Microsoft’s approach here whether they add and hide the option or make it rely on a third party app is the best approach. So my main point is that I guess you are more focused on maintaining availability to legacy options easily where I am concerned that this will somewhat cripple the use of Windows 8 by less advanced users. That is pretty much what it comes to, but we’ll see how it plays out soon.

            //Edit for grs_dev: I like your energy, I am too lazy to go into the detail that you do but in most areas we agree. At any rate how we feel is on the record as is Onuora’s opinion that it is more important to have options. It looks like we are getting to a point where there isn’t much more to say. As an aside in the future ignore our history, a part of me wishes that wasn’t on here because it detracts from the issues being discussed. Look forward to hearing your thoughts elsewhere in the future.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Agreed.

            🙂

          • grs_dev

            @steinersupport:disqus I will take it a step further and say, I do not believe that a user should be given a choice to do a detriment to an asset such as a hardware or a software.

            People often confuse what they are getting when they buy a computer loaded with an OS. Windows is not your property, neither is any software you license for that matter. A licensed copy of Windows is what we buy. If I license you a copy of my art, an intellectual property I own, you have no right to alter it to suit your taste or needs unless I expressly grant you permission to do so.

            I understand that in the world of computing this principal is not enforced or enforceable even. For Mr. Amobi to even suggest that an app be produced even if indirectly is instigating tampering with Intellectual Property that he does not own. This is a public blog and is accessible by virtually anyone on the internet. Freedom of speech stops when it violates the freedom of others. In this article Mr. Amobi is suggesting injury to someone else’s property.

            This is going to extreme here and I know that, but sometimes one must do so to put things in perspective, especially when someone who is being quoted and referenced on other sites for his Microsoft affiliations and knowledge ends up damaging or suggesting damage to the brand and intellectual property of the company he wants to closely associate his blog with.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Grs now you’re bordering in to the absurd.

            I don’t rent my copy of Windows – I buy it. Within the confines of my home I can do anything I want to it. I purchased that software for my own use.

            I am NOT free to alter and RESELL it in any way though.

            In direct contrast, I go to Avis to RENT a car. I cannot alter that car as it is not mine to alter.

            You state “For Mr. Amobi to even suggest that an app be produced even if indirectly is instigating tampering with Intellectual Property that he does not own.”

            Not even worth responding to (especially since I have no idea what the heck you’re talking about).

            🙂

          • grs_dev

            @Onuora Amobi and @Steve Steiner as much as I hate to choose sides on this one because this is not “my” debate you 2 are having and certainly have way more history than I can or care to understand, with that said, I feel like Steve is arguing (trying to at least) facts and stay on topic, while you, Mr Amobi, are arguing opinions and specifically discounting the opinions of others while inflating the value yours hold. Once again, I am trying my best to stay out of your personal on going discussion about the past, so back to the points here.

            I think we established that Mr. Amobi cannot possibly know how much time others have spent working with or interacting with Windows 8, so we can agree on saying that Mr. Amobi has spent more time on Win8 than the average Joe, and he is seeing data that indicates his demos on his blog is made up predominantly of average Joes, therefore he must have assumed that I am an average Joe. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in other words.

            Now on to the points that matter.
            a) I reread your post, and I actually do agree with the part where you predict that an app that reconfigures your Windows 8 to boot directly into classic mode (desktop) is very likely to emerge and become a top selling app; however, I disagree with the idea that Microsoft should be the publisher or such app or supporter of such feature. In fact, I would go as far as saying that Microsoft should reject such app from its public Marketplace. If enterprise IT wants to make such feature/configuration change, i am sure they are knowledgeable enough to infer it on their end users via policy just as they impose any other feature or configuration. For Microsoft to adopt your suggestion is not only flawed from a user expereince stand point and I will explain why in a bit below, but it’s also a bad business decision. It shows that the inceptors of Metro are not all in. It also stifles adoption and promotes stagnation into older versions of Windows since the similarities will be too great at the surface level and consumers/clients will discount the mountain of advancements that Windows 8 brings to the industry and user base.

            b) To compare Windows 8 which is a consumer oriented experience, to Windows Server 2012, an IT professional oriented experience, is where your argument starts to fall apart. It’s a non-starter and does nothing to establish precedence. Your argument is on par with saying (and no I would not be putting words in your mouth by stating this so let’s not even try to go that route if you do choose to respond) that users will most probably reject automobiles that are ditching the classic ignition key and adopting the electronic remote controller and start button instead. While the start button on a car looks nothing like the previous mechanism utilized to start the vehicle and in fact requires a literate user to figure out what it says or basic training (one must read the words imprinted on it to figure it out) the facts and statistics clearly show that consumers will always adopt technologies that are intuitive and flow naturally. Those of us who have started a car by reaching down and inserting an ignition key into the ignition mechanism and twisted it to start the vehicle will naturally seek to do just that. When they do they will sooner rather than later make use of the starter button as they should. The experience will not be a total shock and the facts and statistics back my claims. Those who had never experienced the ignition key will be baffled at the idea that a metalic key and a mechanical process was required at one point to complete a task that is electronic and computerized in nature. The start button and desktop experience are the equivalent of the ignition key to the modern automobile. In a previous era they were necessary, logical, practical and considered an advancement in their own right over their predecessors. In this day and age, they clearly have lost their purpose and if anything have become THE symbol of previous generation’s solution to a problem.

            c) While I doubt that you will buy into what I just explained in points a and b, the reality IS that the classic start button AND the classic desktop are no longer needed. They are crutches for some users who resist change, and some people will simply do so because they don’t know what else to do. In concept, if the Metro experience manages to stick around as long as the Explorer experience did, more new users who had no clue what Aero nor Explorer did or why they were needed in the first place will enter the Windows user base on desktops, in car navigation, tablets, TVs, and smartphones and they will find Metro a delight to work with including the way it just starts. The rest of us who remember days when we used to insert keys into ignition holes located on our steering columns to issue a computer commands to start a car, will sooner rather than later just get it.

            I firmly believe in that.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Hi,

            To the points that matter.

            A) You say “If enterprise IT wants to make such feature/configuration change, i am sure they are knowledgeable enough to infer it on their end users via policy just as they impose any other feature or configuration. “. I agree — for Enterprise IT. Doesn’t help the majority of consumers. You did go on to say “Windows 8 which is a consumer oriented experience” ?? 🙂

            B) The car ignition analogy is a good one. You notice that in 2012, decades after the car was invented, we still use the keys for most ignitions while some fancier cars use an electronic trigger. What determines which one I use. CHOICE. I get to go and CHOOSE which car I buy. I am not FORCED to buy a newer model. 🙂

            C) You state “the reality IS that the classic start button AND the classic desktop are no longer needed. They are crutches for some users who resist change, and some people will simply do so because they don’t know what else to do.”

            That’s a pretty absolute statement to make. Remember that we have precedent here. This is a population of users who clung to Windows XP like it was their lord and savior. You can absolutely tell those folks that start and desktop are not needed?

            Good luck.. let me know how that works for ya.

            I absolutely agree that Windows 8 will move users into the future one way or another.

            How smooth that migration will be is anyone’s guess.

            🙂

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            I also feel the need to add, as another blogger, I am more than a little offended by you claim that you are more willing to say what others won’t. First of all, right now there are plenty of other blogs that are bashing Windows 8 for one stupid reason or another. Second I am one of many free bloggers. My website is one of again many that was founded with the sole purpose of catering to our specific demographic. Do we have advertisers? Sure, but we only choose to let them have space if we like them, and we never promote in our articles products that do more harm than good merely because they support our site. I am not the least bit afraid to bash Windows 8 where it is needed. If you find a compelling problem with it, let me know and I’ll send you and everyone else a link to the article.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            What’s your blog URL? Surely you want to share it?

          • http://seventy8Productions.com/ Steve Steiner

            I think you missed my point, while I recently did a two week series that gave a general overview on Windows 8 for my particular audience, I wasn’t trying to self promote. My point was that 1) I and other free bloggers typically have no fear in saying anything. If we are free bloggers we have chosen not to be controlled by advertisers or even our audience. Blogging isn’t necessarily a means of income in this case but sometimes there are higher goals. 2) I haven’t written any scathing reviews about Windows 8 because I am having difficulty finding much that I disagree with. When I heard they were going with a touch interface I was concerned, then I used the developer preview and found I was excited about where things are headed. When I heard we were losing the start button I was again against it, then I used CP and could find no clear faults with the implementation outside of learnability, I have been almost desperate for something negative to say because I am not a fanboy, and having some healthy negativity does make one look more balanced, I just can’t find something worth complaining about. Metro Start is customizable to my liking and not dissimilar to the Android screens in a way. My point was merely this: most of the concerns I find are ones I had until I tried the next release that contained the changes. They still persist elsewhere, online but are generally concerns of people who haven’t tried windows 8 or won’t try windows 8 unless their concerns are addressed. If the aren’t problems for me or my non-advanced beta testers, they probably aren’t worth mentioning. I am not the least bit afraid to post something negative about Windows 8, and I want to find any potential problems so I can better address them with users in the future. So in response to your claim that you say things that other blogs are afraid to say, I was saying show me a clear problem and I’ll mention it to my audience, heck I’ll even link to you blog about it, and in response to this comment I would post a link just to that specific article for all to see. This was merely because as I said that was a little offensive given that some of the things you have promoted in the past make it seem like you aren’t a free blogger.

            I never go to other blogs and say “read my article” or “read my blog or series”. That would be tacky and unprofessional, and if that is how my comment came across it is retracted, yet the spirit behind it still stands. Don’t forget that often you are talking to other bloggers here, and claims of grandeur often do more harm than good.

            I know I said I was finished in my response to your other comment but I didn’t see this part of the conversation immediately and thought it was worth replying to. We can end this discussion here if you so desire, I don’t have anything else to say.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            I think we agree on more than it seems.

            🙂

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Wow..LOL

            You guys are totally off base.

            @steinersupport:disqus @grs_dev:disqus @43853e191bea69808cd54cf09733112c:disqus

            Where do I begin in my self defense – this is fun.

            First, this article was 100% focused on choosing where to boot into and not the start menu.

            The software referenced did BOTH things – Start Menu and Boot choice.

            Also, I am pretty sure I have used Windows 8 a lot more than anyone on this chain but I can’t be myopic about it. I have to extrapolate what other less experienced users will feel.

            If you think they will be thrilled about booting into Metro each time they want to get to the desktop, i have a bridge to sell each of you.

            As for being alarmist, I respect your opinion but I think it’s just because I say the things other blogs are afraid to say.

            🙂

            See Steve, no ban with respect. 🙂

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Wow..LOL You guys are totally off base.

            @steinersupport:disqus

            @grs_dev:disqus

            @43853e191bea69808cd54cf09733112c:disqus

            Where do I begin in my self defense – this is fun.

            First, this article was 100% focused on choosing where to boot into and not the start menu. The software referenced did BOTH things – Start Menu and Boot choice.

            Also, I am pretty sure I have used Windows 8 a lot more than anyone on this chain but I can’t be myopic about it. I have to extrapolate what other less experienced users will feel.

            If you think they will be thrilled about booting into Metro each time they want to get to the desktop, i have a bridge to sell each of you.

            As for being alarmist, I respect your opinion but I think it’s just because I say the things other blogs are afraid to say. 🙂

            See Steve, no ban with respect. 🙂

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Wow..LOL You guys are totally off base.

            Where do I begin in my self defense – this is fun.

            First, this article was 100% focused on choosing where to boot into and not the start menu. The software referenced did BOTH things – Start Menu and Boot choice.

            Also, I am pretty sure I have used Windows 8 a lot more than anyone on this chain but I can’t be myopic about it. I have to extrapolate what other less experienced users will feel.

            If you think they will be thrilled about booting into Metro each time they want to get to the desktop, i have a bridge to sell each of you.

            As for being alarmist, I respect your opinion but I think it’s just because I say the things other blogs are afraid to say. 🙂

            See Steve, no ban with respect. 🙂

          • grs_dev

            @Ammalgam:disqus it’s interesting that you are willing to go on record by proclaiming things you cannot validate first of all nor do they buy you more credibility, with me at least. In fact if anything, with all due respect, it does nothing but show how truly myopic your perspective on the rest of the world is as you clearly believe that neither I nor @steinersupport:disqus could have possibly have been exposed to more Windows 8 experience than you!
            Now back to the point I was trying to make. Booting into an experience that hinges on the start button is part of the superset of usability experiences that assume users need a place or a way to start from. Like I said, that concept was accurate and necessary 20 years ago. It served its purpose. In Windows 3.11 Microsoft booted in DOS then loaded windows, most late adopters of Win 3.x on DOS booted almost directly into the GUI, because they had no familiarity and one could even argue they were intimidated by the daunting black screen that demanded from a relatively intelligent human being to issue cryptic commands to a computer just to get it to do something very basic like load a GUI. The point here is that late adopters wanted nothing more than to bypass what the early adopters appreciated so much about the same exact product. Those who had an affinity to the command prompt, continued to leverage it and rely on it even after they entered the GUI. The same could be said about that group of dinosaurs when Windows9x came out. They still insisted that it was really just the same product but slightly more embelished and with a bit quicker boot sequence automation. Nevermind that the software was full of new technologies for its time.
            Fast forward to 2012. The late adopters in this era, are actually NOT adopting Windows. The desktop and the “Start” button specifically have become the Windows’ brand achilles heal. It represents a concept that was started back in 1995 and Microsoft simply became so tangled up in its own brand that it forgot how to innovate. Afterall if they’re so afraid to reinvent the start button or the Windows Brand, how can they be innovators? Right?
            So to sum it all up, I am pretty pleased that Microsoft made a bet, a big bet, the biggest bet, as Ballmer called it. I see what he means now in retrospect. They basically are convincing those who are doubting whether Microsoft still has the entrepeneural innovative spirit to disrupt its own base, and the answer is YES, but with a twist. In classic Microsoft fashion, they are doing to the desktop exactly what they did to the DOS prompt. It’s there, it’s available. Those who truly want to stay stuck on it, can and will find a way to do just that for a while; however, for the rest of the world, a new, compelling, intuitive, and flexible experience that is built on the concept of “no compromise” is now available, and you don’t have to throw away your current assets to take advantage of it, at least not in 2012.
            I hope you see my point and not get stuck on the personal hang ups. I really want to debate why you think the world is more aligned with your views on the start button and other more modern and intuitive ways to get things done in Windows 8.

          • http://www.windows8update.com/ Onuora Amobi

            Hi,

            I beg to differ regarding the desktop. Rather than an achilles heel, the Windows 7 desktop IMHO is a masterpiece. Steven Sinofsky outdid himself with the beauty and stability.

            I am digging the metro look of the new Windows 8 desktop but I don’t see the fundamental UI of the desktop as a disadvantage at all. Just my opinion.

            Regarding Ballmer and the big bet, I find it funny that you went through that diatribe.

            You should read this post I wrote.

            http://www.windows8update.com/2011/09/29/my-full-throated-defense-of-steve-ballmer/

            It’s called “My full throated defense of Steve Ballmer”

            Hard to think I don’t agree when you read that.

            🙂

    • Josie

      I agree Steve. For those that don’t like change the “Old” start menu is there. But for those of us that like change or have a touch screen the new menu is great!!

  • Neil McQueen

    I’ve gotta be honest. I really don’t see the big problem that so many have with the new Metro theme. Like Steve Steiner below I’ve been using Win8 for the last 9 months. I use it in my workplace as a Domain PC and also at home on one of my PCs. The one thing I have found above and beyond anything else is that with my Metro menu set up with my most used programmes on the left and medium usage on the right (the highly unused one I don’t tend to have displayed), the speed at which I can operate has gone through the roof.

    The start menu is outdated and un-needed in our current stage of technological understanding.
    A good way of seeing if something works for people or not has always been to imagine that you are having to teach some to use something that they have never seen before (think showing Genghis Khan how to drive a car). If you have a brand new user, and you are trying to show them how to open a programme, then what’s easier leading them through all programmes, or asking them to type the first letter of the programme right there on the metro screen and then clicking the right app icon when it appears. Personnaly for me I’m really happy with the new Win8 and the new Metro theme, I don’t miss the start menu just as I don’t miss it on my Mac or on my iPad.